Roger Kirkpatrick

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Posts by Roger Kirkpatrick

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  12

  Watchtower Now Considers Elders to Be Clergy Class

  by Roger Kirkpatrick in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my father's uncle and spiritual mentor, benjamin ray kent, had been a deacon (ministerial servant) in watchtower founder c. t. russell's home ecclesia (congregation) in brooklyn, and also served as russell's personal secretary at brooklyn bethel.

  after attending university my father served a 5-year prison term during world war ii, supposedly for his loyalty to god.

  while his mother's proud and patriotic family disowned my father for his decision, it was his uncle ray who regularly visited him in prison.. that is the culture in which i was raised, and for much of my life, i took great pride in the belief that my father was a man of integrity to god.

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  Roger Kirkpatrick

  Sure thing, #why144,000!

  Here is eyewitness testimony by someone who was in the courtroom throughout the trial. Advance counter to 49:00 and listen.
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  12

  Watchtower Now Considers Elders to Be Clergy Class

  by Roger Kirkpatrick in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my father's uncle and spiritual mentor, benjamin ray kent, had been a deacon (ministerial servant) in watchtower founder c. t. russell's home ecclesia (congregation) in brooklyn, and also served as russell's personal secretary at brooklyn bethel.

  after attending university my father served a 5-year prison term during world war ii, supposedly for his loyalty to god.

  while his mother's proud and patriotic family disowned my father for his decision, it was his uncle ray who regularly visited him in prison.. that is the culture in which i was raised, and for much of my life, i took great pride in the belief that my father was a man of integrity to god.

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  Roger Kirkpatrick

  My father's uncle and spiritual mentor, Benjamin Ray Kent, had been a deacon (ministerial servant) in Watchtower founder C. T. Russell's home ecclesia (congregation) in Brooklyn, and also served as Russell's personal secretary at Brooklyn Bethel. After attending University my father served a 5-year prison term during World War II, supposedly for his loyalty to God. While his mother's proud and patriotic family disowned my father for his decision, it was his uncle Ray who regularly visited him in prison.

  That is the culture in which I was raised, and for much of my life, I took great pride in the belief that my father was a man of integrity to God. Then, in 1995, the JW Governing Body arbitrarily decided that performing alternative service during wartime was a matter of conscience. My father had gone to prison, not because he had refused to go to war--no conscientious objector has to go to war--but because he had been convinced by Watchtower that performing alternative service during wartime was a compromise of his Christian neutrality. Thus, he and thousands of his fellow JWs around the world willingly went to prison. Now, suddenly, a small group of small men essentially said, "Never mind that you went to prison for our consciences!" (In Crisis of Conscience, Raymond Franz correctly observed that each congregation--and, indeed, the entire organization--is governed by those men having the weakest consciences!)

  I asked my father how it felt to have gone to prison, not for loyalty to God, but for loyalty to an organization which plays games with people's lives. Of course, my father had invested way too much in being a JW to begin criticizing his beloved organization at that point in his life. How sad!

  Because of his experiences in prison (what he often called the most meaningful experience of his life), my father carried on a 'prison ministry' at the Fort Worth county jail, and he would routinely take various ministerial servants with him as a form of training. Recognized as a minister and a regular face, my father was treated with respect and affection by jail officials.

  One day, a new inmate approached my father and asked if he was a clergyman, to which my father replied yes. The ministerial servant accompanying my father that day reported that incident to the local elders who, in turn, reported it to the Branch office. My father received a written reprimand from the Service Dept. for having identified himself as a member of the clergy because that identified him as being a part of Christendom.

  Imagine my disgust when, in a recent court case involving Watchtower hiding a case of child sexual abuse, when Watchtower's last legal straw was to claim clergy privilege, Watchtower officially declared that it now considers JW elders to be members of the clergy. Then to have that claim rejected by the court on the basis that there had been no confidentiality, but multiple persons throughout the organization had been made aware of the allegations against the offender.

  Isn't it interesting that this bit of "new light" (regarding JW elders constituting a clergy class) was revealed, not in the Watchtower, but in a court of law!
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  25

  JW elders stumped by Watchtower Publications

  by Roger Kirkpatrick in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was approached by two jehovah’s witness elders who handed me a pamphlet advertising the jw .org website.

  each man carried a bible and an apple ipad.

  they told me that they enjoyed visiting with people about the bible, and asked if i was a bible reader.

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  Roger Kirkpatrick

  I was approached by two Jehovah’s Witness elders who handed me a pamphlet advertising the JW .ORG website. Each man carried a Bible and an Apple iPad. They told me that they enjoyed visiting with people about the Bible, and asked if I was a Bible reader. I replied that I have read and studied the Bible and that, while I consider myself to be a spiritual person, I have no interest at all in organized religion. I also told them that I am familiar with Jehovah’s Witnesses enough to have concerns about some of their teachings. They asked if I could be more specific.

  I said that I particularly have a problem with the Watchtower teaching of two classes of Christians having separate hopes, with only 144,000 going to heaven, when the Bible teaches that all Christians share one hope. (Ephesians 4:4)

  I asked them to use their iPads to access the book Insight On the Scriptures (the Watchtower’s Bible encyclopedia), and to look up the word ‘sanctuary,’ making note of the definition provided there. They did so, noting the definition, “a divine habitation.” Next, I asked them to access the Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures and to look up Luke chapter 1, verses 9 and 21, making note of the literal meaning of the Greek word rendered there as ‘sanctuary.’ They did so, acknowledging the expression “divine habitation.” Next, I asked them to look up Revelation chapter 7, verse 15, making note of the literal meaning of the same Greek word rendered there as ‘temple.’ They did so, again acknowledging the expression “divine habitation.” I then asked the following question: According to that scripture, where in the spiritual temple did John see the “great crowd” worshiping God, in the outer courtyard (as the Watchtower teaches) or in the sanctuary? They had to admit that, according to that scripture, John saw the “great crowd” worshiping God in the sanctuary (divine habitation) of the spiritual temple.

  Finally, I asked them to look up the word ‘temple’ in the book Insight On the Scriptures to see what it says concerning the hope of those worshiping God in the sanctuary of the spiritual temple. They read for themselves where it says, “The Holy [or sanctuary] represents their condition as spirit-begotten sons of God, with heavenly life in view, and they will attain to that heavenly reward when their fleshly bodies are laid aside in death.” I asked if they believe the “great crowd” to be spirit-begotten sons of God with heavenly life in view. They never did answer that question, but said that they needed to do some more research on the information I had provided.

  I then asked them to access the article, “Is It Wrong to Change Your Religion?” in the July 2009 Awake magazine. I directed their attention to the following statement from that article: “No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds objectionable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” After they had read that statement, I asked, “In view of that statement, why do Jehovah’s Witnesses actively shun exemplary Christians, including family members, who voluntarily leave the religion for conscientious reasons, such as Watchtower teachings which contradict the Bible?” Again, they could not answer my question.
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  7

  The punchline is tuna

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the punchline is "tuna".

  (excerpt from my autobiography, a funny thing happened on my way to armageddon).

  esther had very long, bright red hair like a disney character and she might have been almost attractive--if it weren't for two things.

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  Roger Kirkpatrick

  Yes, Terry, I remember Esther and Vicki Brown. I knew Buster Brown, Esther's late husband who owned a barber shop in Fort Worth. He once decided to keep his barber shop open on Mondays in defiance of the local custom. His shop was destroyed and he was beaten up badly and had all of his teeth knocked out. I remember Esther's Chinese husband, a fellow we knew as Tom. Esther and Tom Chin went to Bethel where they remained for many years. Years later, Vicki re-emerged telling horror stories about Esther, then Vicki disappeared again. Esther's mother was Boots Richardson, who professed to be of the anointed. I remember a piece you wrote about her some time back. Ask Johnny Petzold about Boots, Esther and Vicki.
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  19

  You might surprised how many JWs are homosexuals

  by Roger Kirkpatrick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  contrary to common belief, neither the bible nor the watchtower condemns homosexuality; however, they do condemn the practice of fornication.

  homosexuality is same sex attraction whether such attraction is acted upon or not.

  leviticus 20:13 describes a man having sexual relations with a man, or the act of fornication.

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  Roger Kirkpatrick

  Diogenesister, your point about homosexual JWs having no choice but to remain single really is sad. I knew of two lovely sisters who lived together and came to every meeting together, always sat together and held hands during prayers. Wherever you might bump into one of them, you never saw one without the other. Yes, there were whispers, but I have always believed in "live and let live," and mind your own business. And I think many would agree that the only way to remain a JW for very long is to perfect the art of living a double life regardless of one's sexual orientation.
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  19

  You might surprised how many JWs are homosexuals

  by Roger Kirkpatrick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  contrary to common belief, neither the bible nor the watchtower condemns homosexuality; however, they do condemn the practice of fornication.

  homosexuality is same sex attraction whether such attraction is acted upon or not.

  leviticus 20:13 describes a man having sexual relations with a man, or the act of fornication.

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  Roger Kirkpatrick

  Thank you, cofty, for the opportunity to clarify! I agree with Watchtower that those having same sex preference are rightly deemed homosexual regardless of whether they practice the lifestyle or not. One's personal choice of lifestyle and who one chooses to have sex with is none of my business.

  Two elders actually told me that one who is not sexually active is neither heterosexual nor homosexual, but are virgins which are considered the same as eunuchs. I kid you not!
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  19

  You might surprised how many JWs are homosexuals

  by Roger Kirkpatrick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  contrary to common belief, neither the bible nor the watchtower condemns homosexuality; however, they do condemn the practice of fornication.

  homosexuality is same sex attraction whether such attraction is acted upon or not.

  leviticus 20:13 describes a man having sexual relations with a man, or the act of fornication.

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  Roger Kirkpatrick

  Contrary to common belief, neither the Bible nor the Watchtower condemns homosexuality; however, they do condemn the practice of fornication. Homosexuality is same sex attraction whether such attraction is acted upon or not. Leviticus 20:13 describes a man having sexual relations with a man, or the act of fornication. In a similar vein, the Bible condemns the practice of drunkenness as opposed to alcoholism, which is an unnatural desire for alcohol. Many alcoholics abstain from practicing drunkenness, and many homosexuals abstain from practicing fornication. The Bible makes a distinction between an inclination toward sin and the sinful act.

  Over the years, the Watchtower published letters from elders, ministerial servants and other Witnesses in good standing who admitted having to strenuously fight their homosexual urges, most of whom were married to women, which begs the question, Do heterosexuals commonly have to fight homosexual urges?

  In 1983, the Watchtower explained that the term homosexual could appropriately be applied to those who felt same sex attraction even if they never acted on such feelings. Of course, many ignorant elders held to the view that a homosexual was only one practicing homosexual fornication. Yet, a person who is sexually attracted to the opposite sex is considered heterosexual even if, for whatever reason, one chooses to remain single and celibate. So, a man once told a Witness that he would love to be a JW but he was homosexual and homosexuals could not become JWs. The Witness told the man that he might be surprised how many Witnesses are homosexual.

  Therefore, it is appropriate to acknowledge that many Witnesses are homosexuals, just as many Witnesses are unmarried heterosexuals who choose to remain celibate. I knew a 50-year old Circuit Overseer who had never been married. When my local elders rejected a letter from the Branch supporting the viewpoint expressed above, that CO admitted to me in private that he was a celibate homosexual and he had never married because he was not sexually attracted to women.

  I urge anyone who disagrees with these observations to view the excellent British film, "Victim," starring Dirk Bogarde, which can be viewed on YouTube. An attorney with political ambitions is gay, yet married to the woman he loves. He plans to draw out and expose someone who is blackmailing homosexuals throughout the city. (Prior to 1960, homosexuals in Britain were imprisoned.) In so doing, he becomes a victim of the blackmailer. In a pivotal scene, he is advised by a group of victims to simply pay the blackmailer. Explaining why he is the one best qualified to draw out and prosecute the blackmailer, he tells the group, "I share your instincts, but I have never acted on them!"

  It is a very enlightening film and well illustrates the Watchtower's current view of homosexuality. I hasten to add that this is one of very few Watchtower teachings with which I remain in agreement.
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  86

  Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  of course the religion condemns homosexuality but did you know any gay witnesses?

  i knew some bethelites that were very effeminate and i remember 4 women who were suspected of being lesbians by many in the congregation.

  they eventually moved away and were very vocal against males, especially elders..

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  Roger Kirkpatrick

  snugglebunny, it is not only OK Biblically, that is the official Watchtower position on the matter, but most JWs are not aware of that. Therefore, it is perfectly appropriate to acknowledge that many Witnesses are homosexuals, just as many are unmarried heterosexuals who choose to remain celibate. I knew a 50-year old Circuit Overseer who had never married. When my local elders rejected a letter from the Branch supporting the view I expressed above, that CO admitted to me in private that he was a celibate homosexual and he had never married because he was not sexually attracted to women.
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  86

  Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  of course the religion condemns homosexuality but did you know any gay witnesses?

  i knew some bethelites that were very effeminate and i remember 4 women who were suspected of being lesbians by many in the congregation.

  they eventually moved away and were very vocal against males, especially elders..

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  Roger Kirkpatrick

  ShirleyW and Snugglebunny: Homosexuality is same sex attraction whether such attraction is acted upon or not. Leviticus describes a man having sexual relations with a man, or the act of fornication. In a similar vein, the Bible condemns the practice of drunkenness, not alcoholism, which is an unnatural desire for alcohol. Many alcoholics abstain from practicing drunkenness, and most homosexuals abstain from practicing fornication. The Bible makes a distinction between an inclination toward sin and the actually sin.
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  86

  Do You Know Any “Gay” Jehovah’s Witnesses?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  of course the religion condemns homosexuality but did you know any gay witnesses?

  i knew some bethelites that were very effeminate and i remember 4 women who were suspected of being lesbians by many in the congregation.

  they eventually moved away and were very vocal against males, especially elders..

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  Roger Kirkpatrick

  Snugglebunny, Homosexuality is same sex attraction whether such attraction is acted upon or not. Leviticus describes a man lying down with a man, or the act of fornication. In a similar vein, the Bible condemns the practice of drunkenness, not alcoholism, which is an unnatural desire for alcohol. Many alcoholics abstain from practicing drunkenness, and most homosexuals abstain from practicing fornication. It is a matter of making a distinction, and not all persons are able to do that.